Top> bae> Journey Across North Nivet

I'm going to start posting the second section of saga shortly, so I need ummm require to start the discussion to get its URL. Ignore all that if you don't do your own HTML.

Ok, Yilli fans, I've just uploaded about 124kb of Journey Across North Nivet, 4 parts, they haven't made it out of Capital yet. This compares to about 90kb of the Letters section.

Let me know what you think. This stuff is less light hearted.

I'm running out of whatever got me started on this, so while feedback may fuel inspiration, it also may not. You'll never know until you try.

B,

Looks like I put my comments on the wrong discussion. I would copy them here but that would be redundant. LOL!

I really am enjoying Yilli's adventures. Keep 'em comin'!!

That's ok, Jocelyn. I hope more people will comment. I also hope that the latest lot isn't just too big and unwieldy to read.

I've got about 32k of the next chapter written, but the characters need to discuss what they are going to do next, and I haven't quite figured that out yet. Maybe they will all just adjourn to the common room at the church guest house and listen to a Zhag and Tonyo concert on the faint and staticky crystal radio and I'll pick them up later on the road...

I've posted the next chunk of JNN, the one with the Klyd and Hugh discussion.

Comments on any of this are most appreciated. They don't have to be compliments, either.

I enjoyed the latest episode immensely, particularly the description of Kyld as both compellingly seductive and completely ruthless when it comes to "getting his Gen". It answers very nicely an earlier comment on the listserv in which someone seemed bewildered about why Klyd seems to have his tentacles all over poor Hugh, burn trauma or no, from the first day onwards.

I'm going to enjoy seeing our Tecton Second expand as he learns how to be a Companion. You portray the complexities of the human side of that relationship very well. Tecton assignment or no, when someone new walks into long-established relationships, it has to be delt with, on some level.

I admit, I'm itching to read Skyepar's book with the hints for handling "difficult" Wild Gens. I hadn't thought about it closely before, but in the pre-Unity Householdings, only the Sectuib would have handled the few Wild Gens the House could afford to purchase, at least until they were thoroughly domesticated. After Unity, a lot of other channels who had heretofore only handled willing Householding Gens or heavily drugged Pen Gens would have been sent out-Territory to the new Sime Centers, requiring them to make some very fast adjustments.

I wonder how this collection of traditional techniques would compare with those in use a hundred years later, more or less the time of Unto? And how effective the traditional techniques were, when used by a channel who lacked the inherent skill, self-confidence, and charisma required by a successful Sectuib?

I have a chapter in the new Den and Rital where a thorougly cowardly Rital attempts to use a Monty Roberts-style horse-training technique to "tame" a difficult Gen before donating, thus avoiding any unfortunate outbursts before witnisses. I wonder if Skyepar's book gave him the idea?

It was great chatting with you on Monday; come by again.

I really enjoyed writing the Klyd and Hugh part. I'm glad you liked it.

There's a scene in HoZ where the Sectuib in Imil and his Companion subdue and draw from three recently purchased Wild Gens with the aid of Hugh's haranguing them. Unlike people who walk into a Sime Center, these guys were not planning to cooperate! That's the sort of technique I had in mind. I don't know if this would help Rital any, although it might be useful for that prison channel who had to cope with the SOK protestors.

On second thought, there's no doubt plenty of material in this series of books. The Householders were stuck within their walls for hundreds of years with not much to do but play with their tentacles - they must have come up with all kinds of tricks. It might be a nice touch for Rital to get some ideas from a book like this, especially considering his attitude toward Householders. Or at least read and describe some of the more bizarre or inappropriate ones, but maybe that's more Den's role.

Yilli, Janush and a number of ambrov Teiu are heading up to the border shortly for an event the Church of Unity is putting on. The Church is renting the former barracks of a Sime Border Patrol unit for a week long reunion between out-T Simes, mostly ones served in First Transfer by the CoU missionaries, and their families. Of course, they don't let Gens in-T without donating, so Yilli is going up there to help. The ambrov Teiu are a bunch of her TN-3 members - the Tecton doesn't like to let renSimes mix with out-T Gens without Donors around. I haven't yet figured out all of what will be happening there.

Yilli is quite good in the skill and self-confidence department, as far as channeling goes, and she tries to make up for any lack of charisma by looking harmless and friendly.

The discussion about Hugh and Klyd is magnificent. I wish I could sit down with your folk, nurse a few cups of trin, and hash out the various theories. Can't do that. So I'll write to the discussion list as the next best thing.

---
I especially like the idea that Hugh was 'training' as a Companion all the time he was working with (against) simes as a government agent. I, too, had wondered how in the heck he could go from nada to being a fully functional Companion for Klyd in one month!

---
One thing I _don't_ agree with was that Klyd still had plenty of selyn in his primary system at the time of his transfer with Hugh at the end of House of Zeor. There's no evidence that he had taken any donations during that month, and he had to use a lot of selyn in augmentation and to heal his injuries. The shunt had drained his secondary system, and time had drained his primary. As far as I can tell, he was running on fumes in both systems.

Of course (as you said in our off-list discussion), Yilli and Skyepar haven't read HoZ. Now that I think about it, I don't think either Hugh or Klyd ever told anyone the details of that last week of their journey. They wouldn't want to recall it themselves, much less reveal the gruesome facts to others.

Probably the only thing that got into print was that they were kept apart by Andle...and that Klyd was way overdue for transfer. I rather doubt the general public was aware either of the shunt...or of the events that made it necessary. (Yilli and Skyepar knew about the shunt, but I suspect that was private knowledge of the Sat'htine Farrises.)

---
I think your folk hit a crucial truth when they said: ""I don't think Klyd could hear what Hugh was trying to tell him...and Klyd was the sort to disregard what he couldn't grasp...Klyd really couldn't comprehend a Gen who was an independent adult, who had lived his life without Simes and hadn't been raised to defer to channels"

It wasn't his fault. Klyd was "programmed" from infancy, as a Farris, as a channel, and as Sectuib of the first and greatest of the Householdings. With a background like that, Klyd could not ever take Hugh entirely seriously--as an equal--He couldn't bring himself to believe in the power of Orhuen. He could not admit, even to himself, that he was physically and emotionally dependent on someone else.

(He knew the truth of it on some level, though. When Hugh was trying to revive him after the Genslam in Zelerod's Doom, one of the memories he called on was when Klyd 'confessed that he could not survive without Valleroy's transfer.')

I have great respect for Hugh...and it sounds like your people do, too. Hugh was ALWAYS willing to be Klyd's partner...It was Klyd who kept resisting. Hugh kept trying, kept offering his love and support, and only gave up when his own pain became unbearable.

---
Getting late. More later. -kaires

Hi, Kaires. I like the idea that Hugh was getting his capacity pumped up by interrogating those poor Sime captives. AFAIK, I thought it up myself. Hey, I just had a worse thought - maybe he was so successful as an interrogator because these Simes got some relief from his presence. After all, they were in a completely hopeless situation - the Gens were going to make them die in attrition whether they revealed any info or not, and having a high field Natural Donor nearby might have actually provided some solace, even if he was the one asking the questions - they'd cooperate just to keep him there. Ugh.

As far as Klyd's selyn levels, he did most of the augmentation and self-healing before the shunt, and at that time he told Hugh that he had a half a tank in his secondary. That should be enough to run several renSimes for months -- certainly it would fuel a high-rated Farris for a few days, if he chose to shunt it.

Of course, we don't know how much Hugh or Klyd told anyone about their adventures, but by the time I'm writing, these events were 25-30 years in the past, and Yilli and especially Skyepar growing up among the Farrises at Sat'htine, would have heard lots of opinions, rumours, interpretations and hearsay, mixed with similar from later events, so there are lots of ideas and theories for them to toss around. In ZD Risa gets somewhat annoyed at the apparent fascination of the Nivet Householders for Farrises, and all the stories and gossip they keep telling her.

Klyd Farris would have been the most important figure in history for everyone in Nivet at the time. A comparable figure might be Mao Tse-Tung in the 1950's in China - the father of a revolution that profoundly affected every aspect of daily life for everyone, except Mao survived to destroy much of the good he'd accomplished, or at least to witness its destruction.

I've posted another three chapters. Enjoy!

(And let's have some feedback, guys...)

It's a good thing I was in bed when I read about Yilli's second visit to the University Collectorium.

If I'd been on a chair I would have fallen off it!

The fun just builds and builds, as she keeps 'filling up the empties', and the Controller whines "but you told me there's a selyn shortage!"

Let's hear it for "Hajene Yilli Days" (or the other magnificent name that folk will have to read it to see!).

I'm growing very fond of Yilli. I'm so glad she has Janush to help her. She deserves all the best.

Oh B!

Thank you, Thank You, THANK YOU for Yilli and Teiu! I love her mind set. Thank you for the S-SSUDs! I hollered when I read that!!! Tears just running down my face!!! Unlike Karies I was sitting in my chair and fortunately gravity kept me in it.

Janush is an absolute treasure and I hope he gets his wish!!

Oh, more please!!!

See, it is possible to have SG humour without Farris-bashing. Next I'll try to do it without Tecton-bashing.

I'm rather fond of the S-S S Upgrade Days phrase, and I, too, almost fell off my chair when it emerged onto the screen from some corner of my brain. Since I believe in participatory fiction-writing and other cooperativistic principles, and I think there's a certain rhythm to the phrase, I invite fans and non-fans to come up with some bits of doggerel that can be set to music which none of us have to actually compose, on this theme, that the NNU engineering students can sing and play on their kazoos and ukeleles in the NNU Sime Center collectorium waiting room during the next Hajene Yilli Day, should I manage to schedule one for her. I'm assuming that engineering students 2000 years from now will be not much different from the ones who designed the Roman Coliseum and aqueducts 2000 years ago, i.e. much like the ones who infest ////// inhabit the building I presently work in.

Contributors will be recognized below the HR unless they request not to be. This is not a threat.

Kaires, one of the problems Yilli has is that she can never believe she deserves much of anything good, much less the best. She's going to have to tell Janush why pretty soon, on a 'fair warning' / 'informed consent' / 'full disclosure' type thing so he can back out of doing a transfer with her if he is too overcome with horror and disgust.

Jocelyn, this may be a non-novel without a plot, but I can't just give a main character what he wants right off. Everybody has to struggle and suffer some more first. Sheesh.

The last chunks I posted were parts 5, 6 and 7. Note that the non-chapters of JNN are numbered from zero. I am presently working on part 13. 8 through 10 require some more editing. 11 requires even heavier editing, and 12 may be only partly complete. 13 is a bunch of short letters, eight of them so far, from characters we have and haven't heard from yet, and a few we haven't heard of.

So there is more to come, but unless I zlin a wave of fiction-lust, I may just dangle all this stuff before your ronaplin-dripping lateral orifices... so there.

Signed,
Greedy for Feedback in Toronto
(for negative feedback too - I need to know what you *don't* like)

I know that Yilli has a very effective show-field, and it makes people think she's just embarrassed when they offer to help her, that she simply wants to be completely self-sufficient. ("I'm alright, really!")

But I somehow knew that she had 'demons' to deal with, and that she didn't feel very lovable. (In some ways, I suspect her true nager is a lot like Frevven's, and I really can't imagine where _that_ idea came from.)

I look forward to hearing this 'fair warning' she gives to Janush...I can't believe it's anything that would change my opinion of her, though.

She's a wonderful lady, with a beautiful soul, and the world is better because she is in it!

Thank you so much for letting us meet her.

Hi B,

I just realized that I left out some stuff in my previous comments. I think what makes Yilli so special is the fact that she is willing to listen and not just with her ears but with her heart. The ability to zlin has nothing to do with the ability to listen. Every Sime can zlin but 99% of them haven't got a clue about what's really going on around them. Yilli gets it because she listens.

Skyper seems to be a listener too. Considering his gene pool of origin that is more than remarkable. Janush will thrive with the two of them.

It's so much fun watching Janush unfurl. He is very much like a flower in bloom. Every time he finds a new corner of his abilities opened he just gets so fascinated by it. It's like watching a toddler exploring. There is always something new in the world. You write the wonder so well!

I also wanted to thank you for giving Chaisa a historic context! The poet is only one of several to bear the name. It crops up in Trin Oren and the unaffiliated Families on the Farm from time to time.

But in the mean time,

Jocelyn, these are very kind words, but I almost don't feel like I deserve them because I am not working by design or plan, but just letting the words flow from brain to hand to screen. Like Janush says, 'it just happens'. It took me a couple of months to realize that was some kind of self-referential symbology for the whole process, which shows how little control or understanding I have of what I'm doing with this writing thing.

I don't even know where these characters come from. I made Yilli out of some parts of me I like, some parts I wish I had and some other stuff. I kind of designed Skyepar, but he has a much more detailed past and personal conflicts than I ever designed into him. Janush walked out of the woodwork. He was intended to be a bit player in one of the letters from Capital, but just took over. I start writing a conversation or a letter and it just flows. Sometimes I don't realize what the characters' motivations are or what they are really trying to say until I reread what I've written.

The really embarrassing part is that if I had read the above written by someone else several months ago I would have thought 'oh, yeah, how artsy, yeah, sure'. Life seems to be a process of finding out that we've become what we once didn't think much of, and it's quite different from inside.

It was fun linking in your poems. I like weaving in bits of other people's work. I think it gives a dimensionality to the thing, as well as a little thrill of gratification to the reader when she spots the reference. I enjoy that stuff when I read it, so I want to pass it on.

Ok, Yilli and Janush fans, and I hope there are more than two of you, I've posted another three non-chapters of JNN. Enjoy!

Hey, you don't have to call them chapters they're episodes, no grandiose plotting necessary. Hee, hee, hee!

I wish I could post my 'Told vs. Written Stories' essays. They explain--in more detail than most anyone wants to know--that, among other things, 'Told Stories' rarely have characterization, and frequently don't really have a plot.

Unfortunately, the sample stories I use to illustrate the definitions have that pesky illegal character in them...Gotta write some different examples!

Hi Kaires,

I do very much prefer the "Told" story. It is the purest form and the oldest. Writing it down only makes it more accessible. A good story teller is a very rare and precious thing.

So I say, "B, tell me a story!"

And, "Kaires, tell me a story too!"

OK... not knowing what you guys are talking about, I just have to ask. Is there such a thing as an "illegal character" on the Pens?

Jocelyn, if you keep posting as "greedy" I am going to have to ask my brother if you can have an email address on famished.org. (He's "glutton" on there)

Kaas, I keep telling Kaires that the motto of the Pens is "if it's Sime-Gen, it belongs", so her character can't possibly be illegal. Maybe she will believe it from you.

ROFL, Kaas!!!

Hey, I was just being honest. I am greedy! And oooh there is so much yummy stuff here abouts!

Kaas, PLEASE do tell Kaires that her character isn't "illegal" so that I can get my greedy little eyeballs on that story!

Hmmmm... famished.org you say? I think I shall have to go take a look around. Hee, hee, hee!!

Ok, two more JNN chapter-like thingies, epistolary in form.

Feedback solicited, or you won't get the next two chapters, in which some very grim stories are told.

I like the letterheads. It's too bad that you couldn't get alternative fonts in there, the way I did for the first few Den and Rital stories. That's much easier to do in print, though, where you're not at the mercy of whatever fonts happen to be on your reader's computer.

The use of boldface emphasis in the letter advertising the book from Pure Mind, Pure Body Press was well done. I take it that Canada isn't any more interested in curbing junk mail than the US Postal Disservice?

I can't imagine there's such a thing as an 'illegal character' on the Pens, unless it's something from Paramount, which is known to scan people's websites and clobber them... Or maybe George Luca$ (I've heard similar rumors of things happening to Star Wars fan sites). Maybe just change the names so you won't be in danger of attack by teeny tiny lawyers?

On another note, Yilli is starting to come up with ideas that look rather similar to my slowly evolving stuff. Though instead of channel's transfer for most renSimes, the culture aims at finding a good Gen match for them. The channels provide a backup system, a way of preventing underdraw in high production Gens, a way of allowing for augmentation to get stuff done, a way of saving Simes who are injured and depleting their selyn to heal, an outlet for folks of either larity who aren't good at maintaining a long term relationship, travelers who have to travel without their transfer partner, and, last but not least, extra selyn for pregnant women. Whew! What a list. But it's a complicated system that evolves over time, from the first few pairings that work, to the discovery of channels and their usefulness as a backup system. Also, channel's transfer is used as a community binding ritual, with the channel serving as sort of a priest/ess for a ritual that links the community *as a whole* to one another.

I gotta get a laptop so I can work on this stuff in my idle moments!

Blessed be,
Betsy

Do you want a laptop? How good a laptop would it have to be? /me rubs hands together evilly.

Does Uncle Beni ever add rice to his beans? I hear that together they make a complete protien. "Easter Eggs" can be yummy.

Yes, Kaas, I want a laptop. All it's gotta do is run a word processor and not be too big or too heavy. Oh, and be able to talk thru a network connection to the home machine so I can back it up thru the network -- I'm currently running NT but plan to migrate to Linux at some point in the next year or two. Does that answer your question?

Blessed be,
Betsy

Hi, Betsy. I'm glad you are reading my stuff. I enjoyed your 'Suicide By Sime' and wondered if you were going to continue it, but your current ideas sound even more interesting. I think there are quite a few different social structures that would work for stable, healthy, minimally-exploitive Sime/Gen cultures, and it's surprising htat so few of these alternatives are considered in canon. I particularly like Eileen O'Neill's very diverse arrangements in her Life 101 and Mog stories.

Yilli is constrained by her times and the concessions she had to make in order to get the Tecton to recognize Teiu, and she had to agree not to allow direct Gen transfer to renSimes outside of the semi-junct program. She does the best she can for her members within the constraints, and having essentially all the Gens qualified to give transfer makes life very pleasant for the renSimes and relaxing for everyone - nobody has to avoid anyone else, or distrust anyone else, or fear anyone else, and the Gens can support the renSimes when they are in need and need it most, unlike the rest of the culture where Gens have to avoid Simes in need and vice versa. The 'ceremony private to the House' would not work if there weren't plenty of qualified `Gens to assist the renSime participants. I like the hieratic image of Yilli bearing the stream of life and splendour from Gen to Sime myself, especially since we mostly see Yilli as very practical otherwise.

Get that laptop and start writing!

Dear Anonymous -- Uncle Beni was an expert vegetarian cook and nutritionist and knew that mixing grains and legumes provides better nutrition that either alone. As far as I can tell from the map in ZD, Konawa is in Oklahoma, where it is too dry to grow rice, so the staple grains are probably maize, wheat and millet. Teiu may buy some rice for special dishes, but it wouldn't be an everyday sort of food.

Once Yilli got going on the missionary program, Teiu had many students from both in- and out-T staying there periodically. These students brought recipes from their home areas that Serri and the other kitchen staff were eager to experiment with. One young man the others nicknamed 'Converted' because he had been raised Church of the Purity, but later had a religious experience that caused him to reject his faith, come in-T, attend the Unity Seminary and go in for missionary training, brought many rice recipes from his home in Heartland. One was a new variation on a dessert the ambrov Teiu always called 'Uncle Beni's Rice'. Serri et al named the new dessert 'Uncle Beni and Converted's Rice' and everyone enjoyed it very much, even the Simes past turnover.

Although Easter is not celebrated in Nivet, the low tech poultry raising techniques - semi-feral chickens hanging around the place eating spilled grain, kitchen garbage and bugs - means that egg collection is always an egg hunt, and breaking an egg can be full of surprises.

Please feel free to ask more questions. You'll get the answers you deserve. ;-)

I've posted the final four chapters of JNN. The first two were hard to write and may be hard to read, but the next two should be a bit of a relief.

The story seems to have tied itself off at this point, so the remaining chunks will have to be left behind, or wait for the sequel(s). I'll be posting the ZMI interviews soon, now that I've got the story almost up to them chronologically. They mostly present more background and some topics I didn't cover in the rest of the text, like the experience of the semijuncts from their PoV.

I hope you've all enjoyed reading this stuff -- I enjoyed writing it. It's been An Experience, writing a novel, something I used to think I'd like to do back when I was a teenager, but had given up on for decades. Having done it once, I'd like to see if I can do it again.

At any rate, I'd be extremely grateful for any feedback, positive or negative. I'd like to know who's read it and what they think of it, and I'd be delighted to correspond by email with people who are too shy to post.

I printed them out at work yesterday...and couldn't resist reading the first page while I was waiting for the rest to print...and accidently got far enough to hear Yilli start to try to scare Janush off...and I knew he wasn't going to fall for it...and I was fascinated about the various members of Yilli's family and what happened to them...

It's a good thing one of my colleagues came in and required my help with some drawings, or I'd still be there reading. (Well, I probably would have finished by now, but...)

Magnificent! Thank you so much!

I read the rest last night. Love it!

I can understand why the first two were hard to write. There's a lot of powerful emotion there. You handled the telling of it beautifully.

The more I see of Yilli, the more I like and admire her. I'm so very glad that she has Janush to help her...and that she's finally beginning to LET him help her.

Many people become soured and negative as a result of trauma in their early lives. Others spend their lives helping others to avoid or recover from such trauma. The latter is very rare...but Yilli is one of those.

Her overpowering desire to help others, coupled with her sweet humor and loving nature, is a winning--and winsome--combination.

Please keep these stories coming.

I can honestly say that I have gone from generally disliking to absolutely despising the Tecton. It is rotten from its roots up and more vile than I had ever imagined. But then I knew there was something very wrong with it as an organization when I read that scene in ZD with all that hiking round and round and marching in and out garbage. But for pure viciousness you just can't beat the Tecton.

Yilli and Roza are incredible people! And knowing what she has overcome only makes my affection and respect deeper. You've managed to draw them clearly and with such incredible feeling.

Excellently done B!!

Jocelyn, what I write isn't canon, although I try to be as consistent with canon as possible, so the Tecton may be more lovable and benevolent than I portray it!

The Tecton accomplished the remarkable feat of disjuncting Nivet and making possible a nonjunct society with legal equality for both larities. Yilli supports it in this and mainly disagrees with some of the means. She believes that not all of the evil done to achieve this goal was unavoidable, although she recognizes that some of it was. She sees a number of bad trends, mostly inflexibility, depersonalization and unreasonable standardization in 'current' Tecton policy, but her attitude to the Tecton is that of a reformer rather than a revolutionary. She's well aware of her limited resources and tries to reserve them for battles she can win.

Kaires, I don't know if I'll write more stories about these characters. I have a lot of miscellaneous scenes and ideas, a few of them sketched, and even fewer written. To try to add them to the present narrative would spoil it -- it seems to have reached its natural conclusion.

I've got three ZMI interview files I'm working over and may post soon, and that will complete the novel unless I come up with another sidebar or other peripheral material. It's conceivable that I might write a sequel, but having discovered to my amazement that I've written a novel, I think I should see if I can get the muse out of the SG rut and into an original rut.

Hi B,

While I do understand that your stories are not canon I find it intriguing that anytime the Tecton rears its ugly head it gets uglier.

What goes on with Yilli and Roza and Skyper and Janush may not be canon but the extrapolation is absolutely logical and would certainly support the evolution of the modern Tecton into the bureaucratic monstrosity that it has become in canon.

I have also yet to see anyone write a story that portrays the Tecton as anything but a monstrous, flesh-eating juggernaut that chews up its own with gusto and and runs blindly over any and everyone else.

Please forgive me for laying my disgust with the Tecton at your feet. That disgust was already in place as a general malaise anyway.

Besides the Tecton makes a great target for antidisestablishmentarian tendencies. Hee, hee, hee!

Jocelyn, Mary Lou is always accusing me of Tecton-bashing with the argument that if it were that bad it couldn't be so effective. In her Den and Rital stories she portrays the Tecton of that period as a fairly efficient and responsive bureaucracy with the one frightening element that any channel who crosses a fairly close line can get 'involuntarily retired', i.e. doomed to a painful and imminent death from entran. She also sees the Tecton requiring any channel who retires due to age or infirmity to die the same unnecessary cruel death, despite what may have been a lifetime of service, so maybe her Tecton isn't all that benign either.

I've worked in a number of large bureaucracies, including a provincial civil service, a large corporation and a large university, and while none of them have the life-and-death power of the Tecton, they have a number of elements in common. One that shows up in the kill camp policies in my novel is that of local optimization -- the global objective of the Tecton may be to eliminate both semijuncts and Pen Gens as fast as politically feasible, but the kill camp channels see their objective as making sure each semijunct completes the kill to which he is entitled.

I've never worked in a military organization, but the Tecton has several things in common with one. For one, you can't just quit if you're a channel. This factor makes abuse of the channels and Donors possible, together with the idealism and responsibility of the channels and Donors who feel that without their best efforts, Unity would be doomed.

As I understand it, canon requires the TEcton to be a flesh-eating juggernaut, to fit in with JL's 4000 year vision for the SG universe, so to be canonical we have to work with that. In the tradition of fanfic I try to explain the genesis of the Tecton's organizational flaws in the early years of its inception, when it was a struggling group of Householders inexperienced at large scale management trying to control the much larger group of junct channels they had forced into service. Novice managers tend to go for rigid and draconian policies in situations like this, especially when they have the life-and-death power to do it. These attitudes and policies became fossilized in the organization even after the juncts were all gone and more flexible and humane policies could have been instituted. I suspect that efforts at reform from within were unsuccessful for a number of reasons based on the legacy of distrust established in the first years. From the point of view of most of the 'users', the renSimes and Gens of Nivet, the system was working just fine, and there was no reason to change it.

I did a lot of thinking about all of this, much of it posted to simegen-l, over the period I was writing the book. Maybe I should extract some of it and post it here, linked to my Scrapbook page.

I would love to read more Yilli stories.

Tim, my original idea was to take the Scrapbook up to
the riots following the revelation of the (former)
existence of the secret pens, but the story drew to
a natural conclusion before that.
---
I had a number of ideas of events at Teiu, Cago and
elsewhere that would have gone into the original version,
mostly as notes, although I did write Yilli's deathbed
scene, in which she gives the House to Skyepar. She
died of injuries sustained in the riots in Cago.
---
Skyepar and Roza had a number of children, and Roza never
revealed whether she used Pen Gen fertility drugs to
achieve this. The children were all Firsts, and probably
did a certain amount of shit-disturbing at Rialite.
---
Skyepar was a less pro-active Sectuib than Yilli, but the
House did well under his more conventional leadership.
After many of the missionaries were killed or injured
during the period of the riots, the Church ended the
missionary program, which is why you never hear of the
program in canon. With a large number of former missionaries
who wanted to remain ambrov Teiu, Skyepar may have expanded
Teiu's projects in the direction of geriatric care for
teh rapidly aging renSimes of the first generation of nonjuncts.

pls,i'll like ur help to know more of ur egg secret....

Hmm. If I recall correctly, in the Interview with the Demographer chapter,
one egg was Holrith, who invented (re-discovered?) the card sorting
system, named after Herman Hollerith who invented the punch card and punch card
tabulating machine for the 1880 (or 1890) US Census.
This was one of the inventions that led to the digital computer.
----
Another was the demographer's name, Mursuky. Jean Lorrah's
email address is at mursuky.edu, i.e. MURray State University in
KentuckY. I kind of hoped she'd express amusement over this, but she didn't.
----
The third was the bit about white skin as a nuisance or genetic defect
to be remedied by selecting a more normal colored human as fellow parent. I had a discussion
about this with a friend (and "fan") about the time I wrote this piece. She and I are near
the opposite extremes of human skin color, so I put this bit in especially for her amusement.

So, don't just tell us about them. We want to see them.

I had a conversation recently with someone who manages a costume and make-up service for films.

By way of demonstrating that no one paid attention to the skin color of the employees, she said it took a moment to register the meaning when she asked:

"Do we have any flesh-colored masking?"

And the reply was: "No, ma'm, all we has is pink."

Sorry, I don't understand what you're asking for.
See what? The text is all here on this site. The
Easter eggs are in the text for you to find. I
hope you'll read the Scrapbook, enjoy it, and get
more out of it than an egg hunt.

You told Tim:

"---
I had a number of ideas of events at Teiu, Cago and
elsewhere that would have gone into the original version,
mostly as notes, although I did write Yilli's deathbed
scene, in which she gives the House to Skyepar. She
died of injuries sustained in the riots in Cago.
---
Skyepar and Roza had a number of children, and Roza never
revealed whether she used Pen Gen fertility drugs to
achieve this. The children were all Firsts, and probably
did a certain amount of shit-disturbing at Rialite.
---"

So how about it? We want to see more *please*!

Ah. I guess you aren't the same Anonymous as the one who asked about the "secret eggs".
---
I wasn't planning to write any more fan fic, and since this piece seemed to draw to a natural conclusion, I don't think I have too much more to say about or with these characters. But I didn't plan to write this novel in teh first place, so who can tell what will happen if the muse ever hits again?
---
It's gratifying that you liked my stuff enough to want to read more. Thanks for the compliment!

Btw, several of us are doing 'cooperatively generated fiction' in teh SG universe. So if you like my writing, you can see more of it mixed with the talents of others at http://www.simegen.com/sgfandom/fans/bev/index.html

Let me add an endorsement: I found these tales a huge lot of fun to read.

WARNING: I found them hugely addictive, too. In order to get a 'fix' often enough, I had to start reading RPG logs on Secret Pens, too.

The stories are amazingly clear and coherent, considering that--I think--these folk are just (getting suitably in personna and) plunking away at keyboards in pretty nearly real-time.

...'Cooperatively generated fiction' is a perfect name for this artform.

Having a group of people 'writing' these scenes gives an insight into various thought processes and viewpoints that feels so...well...real!

(Another enjoyable pastime is speculating on who might be the here-and-now soul behind various there-and-then people. I have some ideas. Perhaps I could amuse the players [offlist, of course] by admitting my guesses.)

If you don't mind being addicted to yet another dimension of the Sime~Gen universe...give it a try.

I wish I had the time! I'm suffering withdrawals (especially now that my Channel is studying and travelling and seems to have no time for S~G any more) but I don't have the hours in the day to give it the attention it deserves :(

Yeah - addictive. I'll be back when I have more time! :)

Having read the complete "Letters" and "Journey" at once, I have to say that (whatever you may have thought originally) it certainly finished up as a novel. And a very good one, too. Eminently publishable, in my opinion, if it hadn't been officially deemed to be unofficial. It's one of the most satisfying and well-constructed reads I've come across in Sime~Gen -- and that includes the eight novels. Of those, my favourite remains HoZ, which is a straight ahead romantic adventure and never claims otherwise. But somehow for the others there always seems to be more going on between the books than in them. Your novel is firmly written in that in-between. Indeed, what is so satisfying about it is that it is a real novel, and not romance.

I have no doubt that Skyepar and Yilli are correct in thinking that the Tecton will completely ignore projections of sharp growth in the number of elderly Simes. After all, I've never got the impression that the Tecton is better than real life; and I know for a fact that governments ignore statistics they don't want to hear. Remember how, when the baby boom bust in the seventies, the school boards got hysterical about the sudden drop in enrollment, and had to lay teachers off right, left, and centre? It seemed to come as a terrible shock to them, although, if you think about it, since the birth rate had plummeted six years earlier, the drop in enrollment was entirely predictable. After all, there's no way that children can enter Grade One if they haven't been born. And I know that the connection between the birth rate and low enrollment figures was made. I know it because my mother had a contract with the Ontario government to project annual enrollment for the entire provincial school system, board by board. She knew the enrollment crash was coming. And what's more, the government knew, too: the figures had gone to the Department of Education and each of the Boards. But they didn't want to know. It was a political landmine. So they sat on the information, instead of passing it down to the local level. And the schools kept on hiring. So, by analogy, I would expect that some twenty years into the future it would all come as a terrible, terrible shock to the Tecton that there are so many old folks around. And the local townships, trying to deal with senile Simes, will scream, "Why didn't anyone know this was coming?" And Skyepar will say (as my mother said in the seventies), "But I told you. I told you!"

On the other hand, when faced with general disaster, governments can be deadly pragmatic. They have to be. Your story, seen from Yilli's perspective, tends to focus on the accommodation made with the juncts, allowing them irregular kills at the Secret Pens in order to stave off rebellion. But, as one of your responses in this feedback section points out, getting rid of the millions of unsocialized Pen Gens was also a priority. It had to be. It's all very well to try to find people to adopt a few million babies and toddlers: for all the problems they present, they are at least potentially capable of being integrated into society. But the adults and near-adults had no skills and knew neither Genlan nor Simelan. They could not just be let roam free! And, as pre-Unity canon points out, it took months of one-on-one to train even a single Pen Gen brought into a Householding, some of whom still remained permanently retarded. Who could spare the time to put millions through that process? The very world was being reorganized; and yet people still had shops to run, crops to harvest, and children to raise. Letting the juncts kill the Pen Gens got rid of the problem they posed, and staved off civil war besides. And would anyone care? (Anyone in Sime Territory at that time, that is: we know there were riots when it all came out years later.) After all, let's face it, Householders always did see Pen Gens as expendable. That's hardly a new development. Before Unity, they let tens of thousands die each month for centuries. The Secret Pens were merely a temporary extension of the status quo ante. As long as they didn't have to see it themselves, how could it bother them? And you make it quite clear -- very plausibly clear -- that they simply left the original managers in charge of the Pen operations. Very sensible of them. Ruthless, of course; but sensible.

"Canola and triticale porridge", eh? With maple syrup no doubt.

Dunno if you can make maple syrup out west. Birch syrup, perhaps?

Thank you for the praise of the Scrapbook. I don't know if it would be publishable if it weren't SG -- what gets published is what publishers think they can make a profit on, which may be independent of literary merit. You liked, I liked it, and at least half a dozen or so others liked it, but it seems that most publishers like more casual sex and violence and action in the mix these days. Not that I'm claiming great literary merit for the Scrapbook, but you've got to admit that the sex isn't casual, the violence has emotional and moral consequences, and most of the action takes place in the reader's head as the characters and their pasts are revealed and assembled.

I thought a lot about the demographics and profound social changes after Unity, and told about them mostly from the viewpoint of a character who is far from objective. I could argue with Yilli, but I'd end up shaking my head and appreciating her for who she is, as Skyepar and Roza do.

One thing I'm trying to do in Borderlands, which takes place a generation later, is to show how the past still affects the present, differently for people of different backgrounds. Attitudes are still changing, and people's unconscious assumptions are affected not only by their own pasts, but by teh pasts of the people they grew up among.

Did you spot the secret that's hinted at here and there, that explains why Muryin gave in and allowed the reestablishment of Teiu? Not everybody gets it on the first reading!

Your obvious attention to sociological detail gives your stories a beautifully rich context.

That, plus the well-drawn (not to mention lovable) characters, make reading your posts totally enjoyable.

The best part, though, is the data you provide for my attempts to refine the timeline in the vicinity of Unity. Good stuff!

(Yes, I'm a fan. Yes, I'm also trying to butter you up to ask...)

Any possibility you have notes on the timeline? and on the social/emotional changes you've observed during those years?

I'd sure like to learn more about that!

Gee, I thought I got the timeline stuff from you!
---
As for the social/emotional changes, I think some of my thinking came from reading about China in teh late 1940's and early 1950's, especially the books of William Hinton, who was sent to China as a tractor mechanic by the UN and observed first hand the profound social and psychological changes in the people of a desperately impoverished village in a very backward area.
I also used my own experiences as a child of refugees, and a buncha otehr stuff accumulated ovdr decades of reading about and talking to a lot of people with a lot of different experiences.
---
I dropped various hints about changes in people's attitudes, e.g. in how even nonjunct channels relate to their Donors, and even young Gens unconsciously hold views remaining from junct times. For example, Janush can't understand how Yilli can equate the lives of the Pen Gens she helped teh semi-juncts kill with his life, the lives of her Gen naztehrhai, and the lives of the out-T Gens her missionaries saved. To her, they are all human lives, but to him, there are people, and then there are Pen Gens. Even Yilli and Skyepar reveal a bit of pre-Unity thinking: they really don't regard Gens as quite equal to Simes, despite Yilli loudly asserting her belief in their equality. --
---Note that I managed to cop out of showing the most extreme times of change by putting my narrative a decade or so after it, and showing it only retrospectively from my characters' PoVs!
I don't recall keeping notes on these ideas -- most of them just appeared in time to be dropped in where they'd flow with the rest. I suppose we could discuss it more if you have more questions.--
---
Of course, my ideas and proposed history of the times after Unity are not at all canonical. JL has said that the semijuncts just lay down and died willingly since their children would have a better life. I find this pretty hard to believe of human beings -- after all, most people aren't even willing to avoid wasting petrochemicals so there will be some left for future generations.

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